Sony A7IV focusing issues

[kulmmii]

I've been reading online about Sony A7IV focusing issues lately. Front and miss focusing issues.

I have used my A7IV and 135mm 1.8 GM couple of days now and have been shooting outdoors mainly running dogs but also stationary subjects. It seems that bird EYE AF works pretty flawlessly. With dogs and humans eye AF tends to front focus a lot. Focus frame display on camera and on computer shows that it should be on the eye but focused area is on the eye lashes or to somewhere else instead of the eye IRIS like it was on A7III. 

Coming from A7III world that never happened to me but with A7IV I can't trust how it (EYE AF) works. 

I mainly use AF-C but I have tried with multiple different focus area modes. 

[schildzilla]

This problem is about the new a7 IV with 33MP, not about the old a7R IV with 61MP which is a completely different camera.

There is no firmware update for the a7 IV because it's brand new.

I can reproduce the front focus Eye-AF issue easily with human, if I'm shooting head/face portraits that are filling the whole frame in combination with my Sony 135mm 1.8 GM @F1.8. Others reproduced it with 35mm GM and some more Sony lenses as well.

I did test series and compared directly with my a7R III under the exact same conditions with the same settings and the same light.

a7 IV hit the eye brows only (not even the eye lashes, the whole area was completely blurred out) in 75%-90% of the shots. Really sharp are only 1-2%. There is some variation when repeating the tests. If you are lucky you'll get 50% "better" shots. But it's unusual for head portraits.

The a7R III made focused the pupil razor sharp at least at 80% of the shots and very good at another 15% of the shots, which is an overall of 95% good shots.

To make it clear: This problem does not appear from further distances like full body or upper body portraits with waist.

The a7R III is the camera with an older and a much worse AF system and really outperforms the new a7 IV which is advertised with it's great AF system and that costs more money. There are almost 5 years between both models.

The a7 IV algorithm has definitely a problem with close distances. I've also experienced complete random failures of the eye detection and can reproduce the front focus issue as well.

Sony needs to take this seriously and give out a communication. This problem is serious and unacceptable, even if some Sony fanboys seems to not take this seriously and just blaming users about too high expectations (DOF discussions etc) or wrong settings (the a7R III can also focus eyes perfectly razor sharp under the same conditions with the same settings!).

Other users reported, the a7 III also focuses perfectly.

The algorithm is completely stupid.

Also I hate about the a7 IV, that the animal eye AF needs forever to detect an eye and you must almost touch the animal until the focus locks on the eye. But somehow the camera doesn't matter if the same animal is way more far away, it keeps being sticky to the eye. The detection is very weak.

An animal eye AF doesn't help, if the animal is almost about to leave the frame. Never experienced something like that with the a7R III.

[Raverken]

Just wanted to confirm that I too an having the exact same issue on my A7IV and Sony 85mm 1.8. As soon as I get close to a face the "hit-rate" of eye-AF is extremly bad. A friend of mine who has a A7III came by and we tested the same lens and the A7III did not have this problem. I really hope this is something that can be fixed through firmware although reading through some post of the a7R IV, It seems I don't need to get my hopes up that high.

[schildzilla]

Raverken:

You must open a support case with the exact reproduction manual, like the one I've posted.

Mention that this problem is known world wide and it is head/face-only portrait related.

Also mention what Sony lens you've used, because Sony does close cases with third party lenses or if they expect user errors. (I would honestly also do that)

You can link to my manual.

Make sure your camera did have a front focus, because the issue makes the camera always focusing to the eye brows in the front. In case of a back focus it is possible, that you have been too close. It's just to be 100% sure.

There is also a fast growing community with the same problem: https://www.facebook.com/groups/sonya7m4eyeafissues/announcements

You can join the discussion and share sample photos there.

You can also find case IDs from world wide Sony service centers there that you can mention.

This is how the problem will look like by 75-90% with face portraits, if you are affected (135mm 1.8 GM @1.8 from 100cm distance in that case):

 

I hope this is helpful to other affected users.

Please open a support case, else it's very likely Sony will do nothing! Many users already reported, that Sony was telling them, they have heard that for the first time.

[Raverken]

Thank you for your elaborate answer. I will open a support case.

I also noticed a post on the DPReview forums where a user got an answer from support which does not bode well for a possible fix...

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/65879304

"...this is an acceptable limit of accuracy of the Eye AF. It’s a Limitation of the of the Eye AF in the camera system due to the 2-3 % area that the eye covers in the screen, which is beyond the capability of camera. Another variable is the Shallow DOF is ensured in fraction of an inch limits of technology when aperture is wide open."

[schildzilla]

This answer from Sony sounds like cheese because the a7 III can focus the eye and also my a7R III can focus the eye (razor sharp to the pupil) under identical conditions just 2 minutes later.

Also a manual small focus spot is focusing the eye.

They are making it very easy to them selves. There is no technological, logical or physical limitation or reason, why this is allowed to happen on a brand new camera, but not on the way older predecessors that have the worse less modern AF system.

Maybe the Sony support is just an external company that has the job to always point to limitations and user errors. I've seen that several times at many companies and once I've been forced to contact the government, which forced the company to act immediately.

[HannahEd01]

Hey guys,

Check the below article for the animals/birds eyes: https://helpguide.sony.net/ilc/2110/v1/en/contents/TP0003027319.html?search=eye

And this one for humans: https://helpguide.sony.net/ilc/2110/v1/en/contents/TP0003027217.html

If you check the notes, they're mainly addressing the issues on this thread, to cut it short, all these cases are within specs as per the Manual.

On the Humans link for example, When the camera cannot focus on human eyes, it will detect and focus on the face instead. The camera cannot focus on eyes when no human faces are detected. Among other scenarios mentioned as well.

[schildzilla]

Sorry, but your links do not nearly describe the issue we have.

Also it's a fact that I can also prove, that my a7R III does the exact same job 2 minutes later perfectly.

I am not a "new to photography"-guy. I know how cameras and lenses work, what each setting does, I do manual photography for over 10 years at least, had lots of different camera models (also with Eye-AF), have 3 cameras at this time (all with Eye-AF), I also have experience with software development, electronics and technology and I have never seen such an unreliable Eye-AF or AI in my life - really.

At the one moment everything seems to be perfect, focus is where it should be, eyes are detected, at the other moment it leaves you alone for no reason, is marking the eye but does focus something else even without movement and AF-C (focus priority aways on "AF" by the way).

I would not recommend this camera to anyone who needs a 100% reliable camera e.g. if he is earning his money with photography.

Honestly, I trust my a7R III more at this time and the a7R III AF really isn't the best. But at least it nails the eyes and not the eye brows.

I am 200% sure that this issue is due to a stupid algorithm. Sometimes it makes me ask myself beside other things, if Sony tried to make the camera not too good and damaged something within the algorithm during the try to limit the performance and functionality.

Too bad that this camera is so unreliable, because there are things I really liked about the camera. But as a portrait photographer - and this is what I've bought it for - this is the worst use case at this time.

I've seen lots of other users including photographers that earn their money with photography, that were showing pictures with perfect conditions, where the eye was nailed (due to the focus frame) and the focus was in the front. By the way: A front focus does exclude the possibility that the closest focal distance was reached by 100%. This front focus does not only appear with adults. I've also seen lots of samples in the web with children and even a baby photographer did show samples.

I am not talking about animal eyes now, even if they are also affected. I'm talking about human where the AF should be reliable.

[schildzilla]

Just to show you the freshest samples and how much better the a7R III nails the eyes every time.

The a7 IV always nails the eye brows every time. This a7 IV is weird. The ad said "Basic never has been this good". (https://electronics.sony.com/imaging/interchangeable-lens-cameras/all-interchangeable-lens-cameras/p...)

But the a7R III with it's weak AF system has been very much better here. So basic has been not only this good (if you will call this good), it has been better.

a7 IV vs a7R III + Sony 135mm 1.8 GM @F1.8 - ISO 400 - 1/100s - Eye-AF precision (head portrait)

[HannahEd01]

Hey schildzilla, me next suggestion is to contact Sony, if this is an issue they should know to fix it.

[schildzilla]

Actually I already did.

Sony was denying it at first to most owners. But we could find enough affected owners to make it public:

https://www.sonyalpharumors.com/the-sony-a7iv-has-a-wide-aperture-close-distance-eye-af-front-focus-...

I wish Sony will give out a honest and public communication about this issue very soon. They already did wait for too long with that.

In USA they are still telling customers about user errors...