topic Re: SONY Xperia Tipo SAR VALUE . why is it so dangerous ? in XPERIA archive

SONY Xperia Tipo SAR VALUE . why is it so dangerous ?

rish — Mon, 17 Sep 2012 08:57:30 GMT

Hello , sony mobile , i purchased my xperia tipo but as soon as i got to know that it has a SAR value of 1.62 w/kg . i cancelled it immediately . no phone has this much SAR value. i am from india and indian government have imposed maximum limit on phones having SAR more than 1.6 w/kg , and tipo has 1.62 w/kg .

http://telecomtalk.info/india-implement-stricter-norms-mobile-phone-tower-radiation-today/99220/

does this mean that tipo will get banned in india soon or will sony mobile release another version of tipo with lesser SAR value , please update us if you plan on releasing same handset with less SAR value otherwise this phone will get banned

Re: SONY Xperia Tipo SAR VALUE . why is it so dangerous ?

Thommo — Mon, 17 Sep 2012 11:08:57 GMT

As you already know going by your rants on other sites

The SAR value stated is the highest possible value - Independant tests where carried out and the values are below

Sony xperia tipo regulatory approval.
FCC approved on 15 aug 2012, FCC ID value: PY7PM-0131
FCC measured SAR

Head: 1.28W/kg,

Body: 0.55W/kg,
Product Specific Use: 1.27W/kg

So as you can see no where near 1.62W/kg

Other sites posting the SAR value as 1.62W/kg have simply copied and pasted and not ran any independant tests of there own

Re: SONY Xperia Tipo SAR VALUE . why is it so dangerous ?

rish — Mon, 17 Sep 2012 11:28:10 GMT

ok i dont know whether you are the same guy asmake.believe or not ,

first let me clear two things

1) i want to purchase sony tipo if there is no issue with SAR value stated in tipo maual as1.62 w/kg

2) secondly i am not quoting SAR as 1.62 w/kg from some other websites , i am quoting it from sony SAR manual provided by sony mobile from here

http://www-support-downloads.sonymobile.com/st21/sar_ST21_1.pdf

thirdly since you dont want to read it here is the screenshot from the pdf that says it has 1.62 w/kg , i hope you see that

now i would like to know the answer to my question in first post from a sony official , i hope there is no problem in asking it

thank you

Re: SONY Xperia Tipo SAR VALUE . why is it so dangerous ?

Najeed — Mon, 17 Sep 2012 13:45:19 GMT

That value of 1.62 W/kg was when Sony tested it. FCC got that value as 1.28 W/kg. I would choose FCC values over any other test values anyday.

Re: SONY Xperia Tipo SAR VALUE . why is it so dangerous ?

Thommo — Mon, 17 Sep 2012 14:00:26 GMT

Yes I know where you are claiming it from and no I am not this other person

So it's up to you - You can go by the Sony's highest possible SAR value or the FCC independant tests either way I'll still use mine and not worry about this cancer you have claimed else where

Re: SONY Xperia Tipo SAR VALUE . why is it so dangerous ?

make_believe — Mon, 17 Sep 2012 14:11:51 GMT

Thommo,

good answer.!

Rish,

here i am.!could not post on that site..!Thats why logged in here to tell you that its not me

thats it.! now other people will comment here and then you decide.!

Re: SONY Xperia Tipo SAR VALUE . why is it so dangerous ?

make_believe — Mon, 17 Sep 2012 14:24:27 GMT

Thommo can you please provide Source of the above given SAR values? I Googled it But could Not Find.Thanx in Advance.!

Re: SONY Xperia Tipo SAR VALUE . why is it so dangerous ?

rish — Mon, 17 Sep 2012 14:37:43 GMT

well firstly i apologize for thinking you as someone else , well your answer makes a lot of sense and also you are thinking me as someone else ,i am not that rant person i only wrote that tipo has High SAR value on gsmarena and i am only on that site apart from my first post here , so i came here to get my doubts cleared before i purchase it . i think there is nothing wrong with that . right ?

correct me if i am wrong

now you are saying that when sony conducted the test it came out as 1.62 w/kg and when fcc conducted it , it came out as 1.27 w/kg right ?

it becomes a lot confusing for a consumer to keep track all of this . so what is the value that actually matters is it 1.62 w/kg or 1.27 w/kg

whic one of those value does sony certify ?

and sorry make.believe its just a discussion, no hard feelings

Re: SONY Xperia Tipo SAR VALUE . why is it so dangerous ?

Thommo — Mon, 17 Sep 2012 14:41:59 GMT

Right down the bottom under

Regulatory Approval
FCC approval
Date approved	15 Aug 2012	17 Jul 2012
	FCC ID value: PY7PM-0131 link	FCC ID value: PY7PM-0130 link
FCC measured SAR
Head	1.28 W/kg	1.28 W/kg
Body	0.55 W/kg	0.55 W/kg
Product Specific Use	1.27 W/kg	1.27 W/kg

Availability
Officially announced	13 Jun 2012	13 Jun 2012
Scheduled release	Q3 2012 (Official)

Source

http://www.phonearena.com/phones/compare/Sony-Xperia-tipo-dual,Sony%20Xperia%20tipo/phones/7152,7151

Re: SONY Xperia Tipo SAR VALUE . why is it so dangerous ?

Thommo — Mon, 17 Sep 2012 14:56:33 GMT

Am I still here trying to proove things

See this link http://www.gsmarena.com/sony_xperia_tipo-reviews-4718.php

Thats you linking back to this very topic here that I am typing to post on and if you're reading this then I have posted,

Everything made or sold is tested to the very maximum for all types of reason stress and point of no return been one to name a few - Take a car, Tyres, Crash testing etc etc

So a phone in this case a Tipo would have been tested to see what the maximum SAR output would be in a situation that will probablys never happen and then you get the SAR value which Sony went to press with in there manual because if for some reason it was put to the maximum by an independant company whose findings were greater than what Sony reported then Sony leave themselves open to reprisal - This way Sony are right to print these figures and the FCC are right because there figures are what normal use would be

So can we put this to bed now you have the proof of the FCC and the reasons why by me for Sony printing these figures

Re: SONY Xperia Tipo SAR VALUE . why is it so dangerous ?

rish — Mon, 17 Sep 2012 15:51:09 GMT

i posted that post in gsmarena before you even replied here , you can check the timings of posting . i have nothing against you here .

and i get what you are trying to say , but i still have one doubt left i hope you can answer that .

see fcc is a us organistaion , and this phone sony xperia tipo has two models st21i and st21a . one is for international and one is for american version , both have different radios . so fcc must have conducted tests on st21a and not on st21i right ? and the manual of st21i states it has 1.62 w/kg. whereas fcc report st21a has 1.27 w/kg . so both could be right

now i am not trying to prove anything its just a guess by me , i may be wrong . all i want to know is what does sony certify SAR value for st21i which we have in india . thats it .

please dont take it personally .

thanks for your time and valuable information

Re: SONY Xperia Tipo SAR VALUE . why is it so dangerous ?

make_believe — Tue, 18 Sep 2012 04:10:31 GMT

Rish,

Thomo also gave us phonearenas SAR value..!!n i dont know phonearena operates from america or not..!!

In the same document some lower sar values r also given for ST21i...i was saying you to scroll down for that..!! That values are given as certified by FCC for the model st21i...!! as i guess..!!

Its better if we wait for GSMARENA to publish proper SAR values..as we both trust that source..isnt it?

and if they publish SAR values as high as 1.6 i will also be in your side saying please dont buy for its higher SAR rating..! but for that LLETS WAIT N WATCH..!!

Re: SONY Xperia Tipo SAR VALUE . why is it so dangerous ?

rish — Tue, 18 Sep 2012 11:27:12 GMT

yeah mak.believ phonearena is a usa based website and i read that again and see what i found i am copy pasting it here you can check in pdf it is on pg 61 here it goes , i have highlighted the important points you can check out , my guess was right it is for st21a and not st21i . both are different

Sony ST21a

UMTS HSPA Band 1 2 5 GSM GPRS/EDGE

850/900/1800/1900

Important Information

United States & Canada

THIS PHONE MODEL HAS BEEN CERTIFIED IN

COMPLIANCE WITH THE GOVERNMENT’S REQUIREMENTS

FOR EXPOSURE TO RADIO WAVES.

The Series mobile phones have been designed to comply

with applicable safety requirements for exposure to radio

waves. Your wireless phone is a radio transmitter and receiver.

It is designed to not exceed the limits* of exposure to radio

frequency (RF) energy set by governmental authorities. These

limits establish permitted levels of RF energy for the general

population. The guidelines are based on standards that were

developed by international scientific organizations through

periodic and thorough evaluation of scientific studies. The

standards include a safety margin designed to assure the

safety of all individuals, regardless of age and health.

The radio wave exposure guidelines employ a unit of

measurement known as the Specific Absorption Rate (SAR).

Tests for SAR are conducted using standardized methods with

the phone transmitting at its highest certified power level in all

used frequency bands. While there may be differences

between the SAR levels of various phone models, they are all

designed to meet the relevant guidelines for exposure to radio

waves. For more information on SAR, please refer to the safe

and efficient use chapter in the User Guide.

The highest SAR value as reported to the authorities for this

phone model when tested for use by the ear is 1.28 W/kg*,

and when worn on the body is 0.74 W/kg* for speech and

1.37 W/kg* for data calls. For body-worn operation, the phone

has been tested when positioned a minimum of 15 mm from

the body without any metal parts in the vicinity of the phone or

when properly used with an appropriate Sony accessory and

worn on the body. For devices which include “WiFi hotspot”

functionality, SAR measurements for the device operating in

WiFi hotspot mode were taken using a separation distance of

This is an Internet version of this publication. © Print only for private use.

10mm. Use of third-party accessories may result in different

SAR levels than those reported.

**Before a phone model is available for sale to the public in

the US, it must be tested and certified by the Federal

Communications Commission (FCC) that it does not exceed

the limit established by the government-adopted requirement

for safe exposure*. The tests are performed in positions and

locations (i.e., by the ear and worn on the body) as required by

the FCC for each model. The FCC has granted an Equipment

Authorization for this phone model with all reported SAR levels

evaluated as in compliance with the FCC RF exposure

guidelines. While there may be differences between the SAR

levels of various phones, all mobile phones granted an FCC

equipment authorization meet the government requirement for

safe exposure. SAR information on this phone model is on file

at the FCC and can be found under the Display Grant section

of http://www.fcc.gov/oet/fccid after searching on FCC

ID PY7PM-0120. Additional information on SAR can be found

on the Cellular Telecommunications & Internet Association

(CTIA) website at http://www.phonefacts.net.

* In the United States and Canada, the SAR limit for mobile

phones used by the public is 1.6 watts/kilogram (W/kg)

averaged over one gram of tissue. The standard incorporates a

margin of safety to give additional protection for the public and

to account for any variations in measurements.

**This paragraph is only applicable to authorities and

customers in the United States.

so that means

for st21i - SAR is 1.62 w/kg

and for s2t1a - SAR is 1.28 w/kg ( reported by FCC for USA

only)

Re: SONY Xperia Tipo SAR VALUE . why is it so dangerous ?

make_believe — Tue, 18 Sep 2012 15:06:53 GMT

Well buddy in the very same document it also gives the following information for st21i

Sony ST21i

UMTS HSPA Band 1 8 GSM GPRS/EDGE 850/900/1800/1900

Important Information

United States & Canada

THIS PHONE MODEL HAS BEEN CERTIFIED IN

COMPLIANCE WITH THE GOVERNMENT’S REQUIREMENTS

FOR EXPOSURE TO RADIO WAVES.

The ST21i Series mobile phones have been designed to

comply with applicable safety requirements for exposure to

radio waves. Your wireless phone is a radio transmitter and

receiver. It is designed to not exceed the limits* of exposure to

radio frequency (RF) energy set by governmental authorities.

These limits establish permitted levels of RF energy for the

general population. The guidelines are based on standards

that were developed by international scientific organizations

through periodic and thorough evaluation of scientific studies.

The standards include a safety margin designed to assure the

safety of all individuals, regardless of age and health.

The radio wave exposure guidelines employ a unit of

measurement known as the Specific Absorption Rate (SAR).

Tests for SAR are conducted using standardized methods with

the phone transmitting at its highest certified power level in all

used frequency bands. While there may be differences

between the SAR levels of various phone models, they are all

designed to meet the relevant guidelines for exposure to radio

waves. For more information on SAR, please refer to the safe

and efficient use chapter in the User Guide.

The highest SAR value as reported to the authorities for this

phone model when tested for use by the ear is 1.28 W/kg*,

and when worn on the body is 0.55 W/kg* for speech and

1.27 W/kg* for data calls. For body-worn operation, the phone

has been tested when positioned a minimum of 15 mm from

the body without any metal parts in the vicinity of the phone or

when properly used with an appropriate Sony accessory and

worn on the body. For devices which include “WiFi hotspot”

functionality, SAR measurements for the device operating in

WiFi hotspot mode were taken using a separation distance of

10mm. Use of third-party accessories may result in different

SAR levels than those reported.

**Before a phone model is available for sale to the public in

the US, it must be tested and certified by the Federal

Communications Commission (FCC) that it does not exceed

the limit established by the government-adopted requirement

for safe exposure*. The tests are performed in positions and

locations (i.e., by the ear and worn on the body) as required by

the FCC for each model. The FCC has granted an Equipment

Authorization for this phone model with all reported SAR levels

evaluated as in compliance with the FCC RF exposure

guidelines. While there may be differences between the SAR

levels of various phones, all mobile phones granted an FCC

equipment authorization meet the government requirement for

safe exposure. SAR information on this phone model is on file

at the FCC and can be found under the Display Grant section

of http://www.fcc.gov/oet/fccidafter searching on FCC

ID PY7PM-0130. Additional information on SAR can be found

on the Cellular Telecommunications & Internet Association

(CTIA) website at http://www.phonefacts.net.

* In the United States and Canada, the SAR limit for mobile

phones used by the public is 1.6 watts/kilogram (W/kg)

averaged over one gram of tissue. The standard incorporates a

margin of safety to give additional protection for the public and

to account for any variations in measurements.

**This paragraph is only applicable to authorities and

customers in the United States

And about above statement..FCC is an american council(as far as i know) so it will take responsibility of america only and not the whole world..!

I end this topic for myself here only..!!

Re: SONY Xperia Tipo SAR VALUE . why is it so dangerous ?

bibhabasu — Thu, 20 Sep 2012 21:19:16 GMT

Why are you people fighting over a Confusion between Standards.

North American Standard. The SAR limit for mobile phones used by the public is 1.6 watts/kilogram (W/kg) averaged over one gram of body tissue.

European Standard. The SAR limit for mobile phones used by the public is 2.0 watts/kilogram (W/kg) averaged over ten grams of body tissue.

India follows American Standard, but the Sony manual that u have quoted previously is written by following Europian standard.

Re: SONY Xperia Tipo SAR VALUE . why is it so dangerous ?

rish — Thu, 20 Sep 2012 21:20:13 GMT

wow guys i found out a shocking revelation here and i understand SAR more now , since i was the one who took it to sony mobile. let me explain in simple words . there are 2 standards for measuring SAR i is EU and one is US. the US checking is done by FCC and Eu is done by europen associations. ok the limits are

for US - it is 1.6 w/kg averaged over 1gm

and for EU - it is 2.0 w/kg averaged over 10gm.

look at the difference between averaging 1gm vs 10gm. this is the main thing rather than the value . why ?

USA is very strict as you all know. it has the most strict norms then other countries so check diff between us and eu

lets take an example - phone 1 has eu rating of 1w/kg avg 10gm and other phone has us rating of 1.4 w/kg avg 1gm.

which has higher sar ? it is phone 1 that has higher sar . if you convert avg of 10gm into 1gm . it becomes twice or thrice the amount meaning . phone 1 has approx 2 w/kg avg over 1 gm.

meaning if tipo has 1.62 w/kg avg over 10 gm it means approx 3.22 w/kg of SAR avg 1 gm of tissue . and limit in us is 1.6 w/kg avg 1gm . that is why most cell phones dont have eu rating of more than 0.8 . so eu .8 becomes 1.6 of usa .

To put it another way, an SAR of 2 W/Kg averaged over 10g is approximately equivalent to an SAR of 4-6 W/Kg average over 1g.

read from the source here -

http://www.emfacts.com/2012/08/important-differences-between-the-icnirp-and-ieee-standards-and-the-fcc-standard-for-cell-phones/

and this is the reason why india is moving away from eu to usa norms.earlier phones were based on eu 2.0 w/kg avg 10 gm. now it is moving to more strict 1.6 w/kg avg 1gm from 1st sept. all devices after 1st sept will be based on 1.6 w/kg avg 1gm. phones already released with 2.0 w/kg avg 10 gm will continue to exist till 2013

http://www.newstrackindia.com/newsdetails/2012/9/1/143-Govt-orders-to-implement-new-radiation-norms-from-today.html

i am not trolling here just sharing what i have come to know, so dont take it in a bad way. and also i would like to share that there are controversial studies of sar some say it is dangerous some say it is not. also in reality phones operate at a very low level than SAR rating. also using handsfree and loudspeaker reduces 80 % of risk from SAR.

Re: SONY Xperia Tipo SAR VALUE . why is it so dangerous ?

drbalajipsy — Fri, 21 Sep 2012 02:05:19 GMT

Average over 1 gm - 1.5 W/kg, does not make average over 10 gm as 15 W/kg!"
Average is still an average. Expressed in W/kg.

Re: SONY Xperia Tipo SAR VALUE . why is it so dangerous ?

Neal — Wed, 07 Nov 2012 07:58:02 GMT

Dear Rish,

Exactly..! you are right.

Therefore Now, I want your opinion and suggestion to buy Experia Tipo.

Should i buy Experia Tipo.? Brother i know, You bought this one so i want your opinion.

With Regards,

Neal

India

Re: SONY Xperia Tipo SAR VALUE . why is it so dangerous ?

sahilsolanki — Fri, 30 Nov 2012 09:19:56 GMT

Sony Xperia Tipo has proved itself as the youth phone. Lots of features, cool design and less price what else is required. I am looking forward to buy it. The lowest price deal I came across is.... @ Rs. 8,899

http://www.shopbychoice.com/sony-ericsson-st21i-xperia-tipo-white/p/TWpZNE1EZz0

Re: SONY Xperia Tipo SAR VALUE . why is it so dangerous ?

Antriksh — Wed, 20 Mar 2013 16:03:35 GMT

Hii Rish,

I chkd out discussion , and what i found is , value given 1.62 W/kg is on 10g tissue, the safty limit given by TEC India is 1.62 W/kg for 1g tissue.

Moreover , if it is toooooo serious , i will test it by my self and reply u xact value.

Antriksh